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Post by CaptainObvious on Jul 3, 2006 22:03:23 GMT -5
Hahahahaha, OH jen... the vader "NO".
it didn't live up to richard donner's superman, it was pretty bad... not terrible but bad.
my favourite line: "I forgot how warm you are."
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Post by animatornickb on Jul 4, 2006 10:29:41 GMT -5
Yeah I saw it last night, and I have pretty much the same quarrels. No character, yadda yadda. I still liked it though... But one thing really bugged me. SPOILER ALERT!!!!!
The kryptonite island almost killed him cause he was surrounded by it right? Soooooo how is it he was able to lift that whole thing into space while being exposed to kryptonite again. It felt like a cheat to me, and I wished they had found a more compelling idea for the ending that was a little more believeable.
On that note...
FOUR DAYS TILL PIRATES!!!!!! Yeah!!! Gosh I can't freaking wait. I've been listening to the soundtrack to the first one, and I just bought the new soundtrack and listening to it now!!! I'm a little worried about one thing though. There's a techno song at the end of the soundtrack. I hope to dear god they don't put it anywhere in the movie. And The new ride looks so freaking cool too! Any one for a disneyland trip in a couple months? I know most of us will be able to afford 60 bucks to see the coolest freaking ride ever!!! four more days..... :-D
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Post by CaptainObvious on Jul 4, 2006 13:02:36 GMT -5
It would've been real funny if superman drops the island in mid atmosphere and blow the earth up. wouldn't that be rad? a much more unexpected ending.
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Q
Animator
SECKSY.
Posts: 212
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Post by Q on Jul 4, 2006 23:55:22 GMT -5
um...I haven't seen this film yet, and I probably won't get to see it in the theaters because by the time I'm in the U.S it might be out of the theaters, and it's gonna come out in Japan in like 3 months. Dang it! Every freakin movie is like this! X-men 3, and Pirates too! If I'm really lucky, I might be able to catch these flicks when I'm in Australia.
yeah but anyway, just reading the reviews and stuff, I can kind of picture how Superman is depicted as a non-characteristic character. But isn't that what Superman is? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you've read the comic books, Superman rarely has any character. He's like this rather emotion-less, sometimes shy sometimes jealous 'boy scout'. I have some superman comic books, mostly bought for the awesome art, and when I read it, it's like..the only time he gets really angry(and emotional) is when some injustice is happening. He doesn't really have that much character moments or character choices...etc. Kinda like Legolas in LOTR. He just knows the right things to do, and he just does it, and he gets sad when he couldn't do it, and he struggles because he doesn't know what to save..etc. Superman is definately NOT like..Batman or Spiderman, who have alot of personal character. That's why everyone thinks Superman is Boring! That's right JUSTIN!!! I said it! Everyone thinks Superman is Boring! (I'm talking about the character) I think Bryan Singer wanted to stick more to the original superman, instead of giving him extra stuff. Saying that a character-less Superman is rather un-likable I think is kind of the equivalent of saying that Superman himself is un-likable. To me..Superman was never likeable....HA! but you know..I could be wrong. I haven't seen it yet so this is pretty much random rant.
P.S: I also thought Louis Lane was a horrible miscast.. But I think I'll probably enjoy this movie if it has awesome action and awesome shots. Can't wait to see it!!
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moro
Inbetweener
plunk your magic twanger, froggy!
Posts: 98
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Post by moro on Jul 5, 2006 0:16:49 GMT -5
Er, yeah...you can only hurt him with kryptonite, so there's not much suspense. (AND he wears his underwear on the outside.)
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Post by Jen on Jul 5, 2006 13:09:04 GMT -5
Ed - Hilarious!!
Heidi - Nobody hates more then me! *wink*
Q - Yeah I agree. Have you seen Donner's Superman from the 70s? That movie isn't thick with character either, but at leasts its fun! There's enough there to make you care about Superman and the people he's trying to save. There's a moment with his father at the beginning that makes me cry everytime. Honestly I haven't seen it in at least a year or so, so I can't give a very accurate analysis. The movie does fill me with wonder though! It's pretty magical. Singer's film is far from magical, and the way he approaches the world, its like he wants to give Superman this rich multifaceted character and emotions. The world around Superman feels more real, more like the comic-book movies of today, and even Superman has these weepy scenes where he's staring sadly at the camera and all this crap, but he's not any richer a character then he is in the original. In the original it works though, cause the whole movie supports it. Here its just makes the film feel empty. Basically this film is just not any fun. That's why I start harping on arcs and themes and stuff. If your going to do all this dramatic character stuff that HAS to be in there, and it HAS to be clear. Anyways.... I don't know if this is making sense.
Also not to mention... Ed and I were talking on the phone, and possibly the most appealing thing about Superman, his morality, is kind of vague in this film. I mean he leaves earth to rot for five years while he goes off looking for some rocks from his exploded planet and then he comes back and just starts fighting crime again. You think there would be SOME kind of scene to address this. Maybe earth is angry at him for leaving, or he feels bad for leaving them, and he tries harder to right wrongs.... etc. I guess the Superman that appeals to me is the one that cares about more then just himself and getting his girl. He should care about the greater good.
Ok I better go! I'm gonna go eat some crabs!! mmm!
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Juice
Animator
Posts: 211
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Post by Juice on Jul 5, 2006 13:31:03 GMT -5
Q, i'm very busy at the moment. I just read your comment...and you too Jen, agreeing. I don't really have the time right now to explain why superman is awesome, NOT BORING!!!! I will explain at a later date. This post is basically pointless other than to tell you......
.......it's coming.
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Post by CaptainObvious on Jul 5, 2006 15:33:44 GMT -5
oh it is a boring sausage fest that's what the movie is. Richard Donner knew how to create the connection between superman and loise. You feel like they were really falling in love. It is very clear how their relationship is growing and develops throughout the film. But... in Superman Returns, superman comes back and shows up all excited... you would think everyone is pissed off that he left, but everyone is happy that he is back. What in the world?! Where's the conflict!? It is boring! So we find out Loise is the only one that is angry that superman is back, but that story element was never dug into. Instead brian singer decided to have a long perverted sequence of superman spying on her and her family. WHAT IN THE WORLD!? that's not superman at all! He would not abuse his power for his own good! He would NEVER EVER spy on Loise! Unless it is to protect her, but here he is doing it out of jealousy. Even if he is curious he still would not go and spy on her. It is creepy! And what happens?! He is pissed? NO, he just gives up on loise!? No! This is where he has no character because he didn't do a thing! NOTHING! There's that conflict, but he didn't response to it. Why would I watch a movie when a character doesn't do anything to reflect his/her conflict? It is better to watch someone looking for a bathroom to take a dump, at least we know the conflict is to find a bathroom and the goal is to take a dump. And superman's son, what was his character? I'm a semi-sad, semi-cute, semi-awkward, semi-innocent kid who doesn't have a goal in life and i don't have any emotion except I breath fast when i'm nervous. Oh wow, I am paying to see a kid who hardly talks and acts, oh wow, why can't I just do that with nacho libres which is a ten thousand times better film. The movie could've been good. I thought kevin spacey's lex character was pretty cool, he had a goal, he had a conflict, he had a clear personality, he had humor, he was more charming than superman. I kind of want him to win and kick superman's ass 'cause i could not feel sorry for superman. not to even menton the hospital scene. What was the purpose of that scene? to show people love superman? but we already know that. Wouldn't it be better if ppl found out superman saved them and felt terrible and then starts to support him again.
I gotta go back to work, and jen, I want crabs too. SUPER JEALOUS.
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Post by Jen on Jul 5, 2006 16:17:28 GMT -5
Ed - You just dropped about a 100 points on the Darcimeter for using the phrase, "sausage fest" and using a poop metaphor to describe story structure. *shakes head* ! Yeah and dude... those crabs were amazing. Seriously they were the best crabs I've had in like 5 years. It's sad I won't be able to eat them again for soooo long. And Justin - Awesome! I'm really curious what everyone thought of this film. People should post! Superman is still my favorite superhero too! Mostly because of the first film. !
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Juice
Animator
Posts: 211
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Post by Juice on Jul 5, 2006 17:35:29 GMT -5
Jen, I'm talking about the Superman as a Character....not the film....which I didn't like at all. I'll also explain that, but it's basically the same reasons everyone else has.
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Emma
Newbie
Dropout
Posts: 44
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Post by Emma on Jul 5, 2006 19:49:25 GMT -5
Q totally said what I think. The main point everyone's making is that Superman himself is boring, which is a given. There's not much conflict, because he's a godlike alien.
I personally liked it because it was solid. I didn't mind Superman himself, because I went into the movie expecting him to be SUPERMAN, and pretty boring. Lex Luthor was awesome, but like Superman I took it for granted that Lois Lane was going to be boring, too.
Superman is supposed to be boring. Unlike Storm and Wolverine and everyone in X3 who were trying to be interesting, cool, and conflicted characters and just came off as boring... which is why I think this movie was so much better than X3. I think they established the characters early and then stuck to them, instead of twisting them around to suit the plot points as the film goes on.
And yeah... the kryptonite thing at the end was a little over the top. But again, that's the essence of Superman. He's boring, he can do anything, he can go from orbit and crash into Median Park (cause this is Metropolis, not New York, remember) and survive.
The film felt honest to me. It wasn't tired cliche after tired cliche heaped up on top of the last one. That, for me, puts it far and ahead of everything else coming out this summer. We'll see about Pirates (watch, I'm going to be the only one bitching about it... )...
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Juice
Animator
Posts: 211
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Post by Juice on Jul 5, 2006 20:22:03 GMT -5
SUPERMAN IS NOT BORING!!!! Just because he isn't portrayed very well in a few films (Superman 1 and 2 are awesome). I'm SO tired of people saying, "Oh he's an alien, he can do anything, so yeah, everything=boring. NOOOO YAAARRRR!!!! Anyway, more to come later.
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Post by Jen on Jul 5, 2006 22:41:42 GMT -5
Man guys! Watch the Donner films again! They may not be as fancy pants as Singer's film, but they portrayed a Superman that is at least engaging! You understand who he is and where he came from and why he does the things he does. He's a hero we can get behind! When crap goes down you cheer for this guy to come save the day!
(Don't read this if you don't want me to spoil plot points of the original films.)
Geez man! When Clark's dad dies at the beginning and he's talking to his mother and he says to her something like.... and this is terrible paraphrasing.... "he died and I couldn't save him.... I have all these powers and there was nothing I could do." Man its heartbreaking! I cry like a baby!
Then at the end when luther sets off those nuclear bombs in the fault line and everything is going to shit.... everyone's about to die... and superman is completely incapacitated because of his kryponite issues. That is a seriously nail-biting sequence!! Then he gets out of there not because he just willed himself to deal with kryponite. He gets out of there because he uses his kindness to win Ms. Tessmacher over. Then, man, when he shoots out of the ceiling to rescue everybody to John Williams theme.... holy crap... I get chills! So man bad things have happened! How is he going to reverse so much natural disaster!? I'm ENGAGED!!!
And MAN... the scene with Lois Lane at the end!! Holy crap if that doesn't break my heart everytime!! Here he is the strongest man in the world, and he's gently laying her dead body on the ground as he starts to cry. He can't do anything for her!! She's dead and its too late!! It's his dad all over again!! Man you felt his affection, you felt his pain!!! Did you give a rat's patoot about Lois when she was in danger in Superman Returns? I didn't. You know why? First of all she's incredibly boring and uninteresting, but also we didn't feel it through Superman. We didn't feel his affection for her. Superman never loved lois in this film, he obsessed about her. He doesn't ever do anything to prove to me he loves her. It's hard to care about a relationship that doesn't exist. And when she's in danger he doesn't freak out, he doesn't stress. She's in a plane hurling towards earth. She could be dead for all he knows. What does he do? He just calmly holds the plane. Things don't mean anything to us if we don't experience them through the character.
Anyways...this is Donner's Superman!! And these are incredibly engaging scenes!! Nothing even compares to this in Superman Returns. Superman may have super powers, but he has human emotions. Anyone with human emotions isn't immune to everything. This is the problem with Singer's film. He doesn't emote!! All his emotions are so vague in this film, we don't know how to feel. He's alien to us both physically and mentally. Donner's superman gets sad, he gets happy, he gets angry, he gets upset... we know how to feel about the situations he encounters. That's his appeal. He has human emotions and problems, but he has superpowers. All the superpowers in the world aren't going to make Lois fall back in love with him. They aren't going to bring his dad back. They aren't going to make him feel any less alone.
Ok I guess that's it for now. I don't really care enough about superheros to argue that Superman is better then Batman and all that. I just really like Donner's films, and I really hate Singer's film. I'm just trying to stick up for good storytelling!
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Q
Animator
SECKSY.
Posts: 212
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Post by Q on Jul 5, 2006 22:47:55 GMT -5
Justin- Haha. yeah , honestly Superman is cool. It's just that I like Batman and other super heros alot better, but I can totally understand why superman could be cool. Bill in Kill Bill 2 talks about something like that. forgot what it really was, but at the moment I was like..hey that makes sense. superman def. has his own coolness going for him. Ha! one funny thing is, I partially base my image of Superman off of Smallville...that's right. as pathetic as that sounds. Hey, he was half the same character as the latter Superman but man EVERY one Loved Smallville! except for the people who didn't...but yeah. I do have to admit he is awesome Justin! ha!
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Post by CaptainObvious on Jul 6, 2006 11:29:24 GMT -5
Donner made The Goonies, and that's all it matters!
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